Talk:Dives and Lazarus (ballad)

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[Untitled][edit]

Quoting Lazarus and Dives:

Dives is also called Diversus in some versions, such as that performed by Steeleye Span on their album "They Called Her Babylon".

Does anyone have access to the album? I would surmise that this indeed is a variant of the ballad (and the further change of Diverus to Diversus sounds rather plausible). In that case, a reference should be put here.

Does any of you "English speaking by birth" people know if it is still sung as a carol?

Perhaps the Lazarus and Dives should be slightly abridged, replacing its references to the song by a link here. JoergenB 18:25, 15 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I've sung in Maddy's backing choir in her Carnival Band Christmas gigs a couple of times now, and narry a trace of it yet. The Steeleye version is a very Kempy arrangement at best, so far removed from the original as to be barely recogniable, musically: he got a tad monotonous in cutting every arrangement from the same cloth, sadly, possibly to allow him to bring his rather limited vocal range to bear on it.
Because it is in The English Hymnal, it will invariably be performed occasionally in one of the re-lyriced variants (usually "I heard the voice of Jesus say..."), but rarely with the macaronic lyrics - most bibles translate Dives as "a rich man", whereas Lazarus is left as an uncomfortable midway between Lazarus and "Leper", depending on the translation. IT tends to be a somewhat awkward compromise as it's core melody is distinctly that of John Barleycorn, which also has a resurrection guaranteed to annoy the vicar. Perhaps this is why it survived in the other form, when the West Gallery band, still pickled after the night before, might tackle something rather more secular like this celebration of beer. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.219.67.184 (talk) 04:18, 8 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

medieval folk tune?[edit]

On the Lazarus and Dives pages, this ballad is referred to as a medieval folk tune. Is it traced back to the Middle Ages? If so, this page should say that. If not, the L&D page should be corrected. Jonathan Tweet 21:34, 2 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I've answered on Discussion:Lazarus and Dives. Summary: Child does not trace it further back than to 1557. JoergenB 04:29, 8 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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Dires?[edit]

The 'lyrics' section has Dires. Should that be Dives?--Richardson mcphillips (talk) 02:10, 24 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Versions[edit]

You can hear that Vaughan Williams has also used this tune in his "English Folk Song Suite". This is acknowledged in the Wikipedia article for that piece. It is heard during the 1st movement played by the lower brass. The 1st movement is actually a compilation of at least 3 tunes and this is one of them.Jiver2 (talk) 10:45, 23 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Lead[edit]

In an article like this, why is "listed as Child ballad 56 and number 477 in the Roud Folk Song Index." in the first lead sentence, or in the WP:LEAD at all? Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 18:34, 22 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I should think that its inclusion in these collections is the principal basis for its notability. Ibadibam (talk) 16:33, 23 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Source for tune notation[edit]

@Míkóhańeń: could you add a citation for the source of the notation you added? Ibadibam (talk) 16:39, 23 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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