User talk:Johnpacklambert/Archives/2023/March
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Speedy deletion nomination of Category:French people in French Vietnam
A tag has been placed on Category:French people in French Vietnam indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.
If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself. Liz Read! Talk! 01:12, 3 March 2023 (UTC)
A tag has been placed on Category:Expatriates from Canada in British India indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.
If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself. Liz Read! Talk! 01:28, 4 March 2023 (UTC)
Bath Community Schools
Hi! I notice Bath Community Schools got redirected to the page on the school disaster. The district is a current school district, and Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Common_outcomes notes that ""Populated, legally-recognized places" include school districts, which conveys near-presumptive notability to school districts per Wikipedia:Notability (geography)."
I would like to look for newspaper articles and TV station articles that give WP:SIGCOV to the subject, so it can have its own article again.
Thanks, WhisperToMe (talk) 03:09, 4 March 2023 (UTC)
Speedy deletion nomination of Category:People from the Spanish Empire
A tag has been placed on Category:People from the Spanish Empire indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.
If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself. Liz Read! Talk! 01:12, 7 March 2023 (UTC)
Categories
Someone has claimed I have been "banned from further work on categories". This is not true. I can directly edit categories as much as I would like. Now I guess there was a time when I agreed to limit my edits to only biographies of people born in certain years, but there is no ban that prevents me from creating new categories, at least as long as they do not in some way related to certain specific topics or activities (I am not sure many categories would relate to the later, but that is a different issue). I am limited from participating in some types of discussions, but I can create categories as much as I would like for the most part. I however do think that the whole scheme of x year establishments in y place may have gone too far in creating small categories, combined with the fact that it is not easy to build such categories, so for now I am choosing not to expend much energy in creating that type of category, but there is no ban that keeps me from creating new such categories, I just choose to expend my time on others types of categories or other edits in Wikipedia.John Pack Lambert (talk) 14:12, 13 February 2023 (UTC)
- I can't remember exactly what sanctions were put on you – you should know. But if you are going to carry on creating categories, please look around the hierarchies first, and stop creating (i) duplicate categories (such as Emigrants from Orange Free State, Emigrants from the Orange Free State and Orange Free State emigrants), (ii) mis-spelled categories, and (iii) intersection categories with only one parent (e.g. Category:Blind people from Cape Colony and several others in Cape Colony people). – Fayenatic London 11:53, 7 March 2023 (UTC)
More thoughts on Categories
Building categories is at times tedious and seemingly thankless work. It does not help that we lack good consistency on what they are named. This especially applies to categories related to past countries. We have finally come to a consensus to use Category:People from the Russian Empire and use from in almost all subcategories. However Category:People from the Ottoman Empire is not near as much consistency in its subcategories and Category:People from British India is probably not going to be consistent period. Category:Austro-Hungarian people may need looking at, especially since in some cases people may use Austro-Hungaria the sane way as German-American, to refer to Hungarian people of Austrian descent.John Pack Lambert (talk) 03:10, 9 March 2023 (UTC)
- The descriptor sentence for Category:People from British India says that it is for "all people of British India".John Pack Lambert (talk) 03:13, 9 March 2023 (UTC)
- Another issue is that some categories that use "of" become ambiguous what the of means. This is why from is slowly winning out. There has still n9t been much discussion on of versus in categories.John Pack Lambert (talk) 03:16, 9 March 2023 (UTC)
Category:Lithuanian Latter Day Saints has been nominated for merging
Category:Lithuanian Latter Day Saints has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Estopedist1 (talk) 07:47, 9 March 2023 (UTC)
Category:Expatriates from British India in the United Kingdom
[[Indira Devi Chaudhurani]] would seem to fit [[:Category:Expatriates of British India in the United Kingdom]], since she was a person of ethnic Indian origin raised partly in Britain, but spent most of her life in India, and died before the end of British rule. However I am not sure expatriate is the right word for people from an imperial possession in the home country, and I am not sure such a thing is worth categorizing by. I am seeing if others have ideas on this before doing anything.John Pack Lambert (talk) 21:09, 9 March 2023 (UTC)
A tag has been placed on Category:People of French descent from the Russian Empire indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.
If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself. Liz Read! Talk! 01:32, 10 March 2023 (UTC)
A tag has been placed on Category:People of Swedish descent from the Russian Empire indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.
If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself. Liz Read! Talk! 01:33, 10 March 2023 (UTC)
Category:Sportspeople from Cape Colony
For information, Category:Sportspeople from Cape Colony and its sub-cats, all created by you, had only one parent, and need renaming to "from the Cape Colony" per Category:Cape Colony.
Some of them are clearly not useful for navigation and have therefore been nominated for merger at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 March 7#Category:Male boxers from Cape Colony. – Fayenatic London 12:19, 7 March 2023 (UTC)
- Without doing a full search of all boxers who may have been active in the Cape Colony, which I have not yet actually done, I think it is premature to say the category is not useful. Category usedfulness is not determined on the articles that are there, or the articles that we have that are there, but the potential articles we have there. I was only able to find one other Cape Colony boxer so far. However if we are to remove the cat, we should upmerge its contents to Category:Sportspeople from Cape Colony. Or maybe using the, if that is the consensus people come to.John Pack Lambert (talk) 16:12, 7 March 2023 (UTC)
- OK, I also found Clarence Walker (boxer), making 4 currently. – Fayenatic London 19:42, 10 March 2023 (UTC)
- Without doing a full search of all boxers who may have been active in the Cape Colony, which I have not yet actually done, I think it is premature to say the category is not useful. Category usedfulness is not determined on the articles that are there, or the articles that we have that are there, but the potential articles we have there. I was only able to find one other Cape Colony boxer so far. However if we are to remove the cat, we should upmerge its contents to Category:Sportspeople from Cape Colony. Or maybe using the, if that is the consensus people come to.John Pack Lambert (talk) 16:12, 7 March 2023 (UTC)
A tag has been placed on Category:People of Georgian descent from the Russian Empire indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.
If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself. Liz Read! Talk! 01:37, 11 March 2023 (UTC)
A tag has been placed on Category:People of Tatar descent from the Russian Empire indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.
If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself. Liz Read! Talk! 01:37, 11 March 2023 (UTC)
A tag has been placed on Category:Football managers from the Russian Empire indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.
If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself. Liz Read! Talk! 01:23, 14 March 2023 (UTC)
Category:Emigrants from Portuguese India to Briitsh Ceylon has been nominated for deletion
Category:Emigrants from Portuguese India to Briitsh Ceylon has been nominated for deletion. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Roundish ⋆tc) 20:13, 14 March 2023 (UTC)
Speedy deletion nomination of Category:Dominion of Newfoundland emigrants
A tag has been placed on Category:Dominion of Newfoundland emigrants indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.
If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself. Liz Read! Talk! 01:58, 15 March 2023 (UTC)
A tag has been placed on Category:Dominion of Newfoundland emigrants to the United Kingdom indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.
If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself. Liz Read! Talk! 01:59, 15 March 2023 (UTC)
Speedy deletion nomination of Category:Emigrants from the United Kingdom to the Colony of Nefoundland
A tag has been placed on Category:Emigrants from the United Kingdom to the Colony of Nefoundland indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.
If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself. Liz Read! Talk! 02:01, 15 March 2023 (UTC)
A tag has been placed on Category:Emigrants to the Colony of Newfoundland indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.
If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself. Liz Read! Talk! 02:01, 15 March 2023 (UTC)
1880s births
Category:1882 births currently has 4,599 articles. Category:1881 births currently has 4,437 articles.John Pack Lambert (talk) 15:56, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
Speedy deletion nomination of Category:1877 in Transvaal Colony
A tag has been placed on Category:1877 in Transvaal Colony indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.
If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself. Liz Read! Talk! 03:29, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
Speedy deletion nomination of Category:Cypriot mezzo-sopranos
A tag has been placed on Category:Cypriot mezzo-sopranos indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.
If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself. Liz Read! Talk! 03:39, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
Speedy deletion nomination of Category:1958 establishments in Paraguay
A tag has been placed on Category:1958 establishments in Paraguay indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.
If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself. Liz Read! Talk! 01:53, 18 March 2023 (UTC)
A tag has been placed on Category:Emigrants from Orange Free State to Southern Rhodesia indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.
If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself. Liz Read! Talk! 01:14, 21 March 2023 (UTC)
A tag has been placed on Category:Emigrants from the Ottoman Empire to the Tsardom of Russia indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.
If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself. Liz Read! Talk! 04:55, 22 March 2023 (UTC)
1872 birth and 1873 births
[[:Category:1873 births]] currently has 3,830 articles. [[:Category:1872 births]] has 3,927 articles.John Pack Lambert (talk) 19:17, 22 March 2023 (UTC)
A tag has been placed on Category:Emigrants from the Danish West Indies to the British Empire indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.
If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself. Liz Read! Talk! 01:39, 24 March 2023 (UTC)
A tag has been placed on Category:Military doctors from the Russian Empire indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.
If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself. Liz Read! Talk! 01:42, 24 March 2023 (UTC)
Ottoman Empire
Those people in the Ottoman Empire while it existed should be said in their articles to have been there, and should be placed in categories reflecting that they were in the Ottoman Empire.John Pack Lambert (talk) 13:53, 27 March 2023 (UTC)
Speedy deletion nomination of Category:People from the Colony of Fiji
A tag has been placed on Category:People from the Colony of Fiji indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.
If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself. Liz Read! Talk! 02:40, 28 March 2023 (UTC)
Nata vs Natal
You have created Category:Emigrants from New Zealand to the Colony of Nata, but the last word of the category name is truncated. I suggest you nominate this category for (speedy) renaming.-gadfium 03:04, 28 March 2023 (UTC)
A tag has been placed on Category:Emigrants from New Zealand to the Colony of Nata indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.
If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself. Liz Read! Talk! 01:17, 29 March 2023 (UTC)
The historians by country mess
Right now if I am looking at things right Category:Historians by country is being used to group historians by the country they study, while Category:Historians by nationality groups historians by the country they are nationals or subjects of. Then we have Category:Historians by former country which seeks, I think to group historians by the country that no longer exists that they were nationals or subjects of. However, it is not clear. Some categories are clearly doing that, a few categories are clearly grouping historians by the subject of study, and a few are ambiguous and may in some cases be a mix of both. The whole hierarchy lacks clarity, maybe made worse by the fact many historians write on the place they are nationals or subjects of, and so the need to differentiate the two is not always clear.John Pack Lambert (talk) 03:47, 9 March 2023 (UTC)
- I posted a request on the talk page of the creator of the category Category:Historians by former country to see what he intended by that category name. I have to admit that I think the underlying problem is that "historians by country" is not clear as to what it means, a name like "historians by country of study" would be much clearer. I am not sure if Category:Scholars by former country and its subsections are clear enough. At some level I am not even sure that Category:People by former country is clear enough or quite the right name. Category:People by country that no longer exists or a similar name would be more clear, but I am not sure such a length of name would be needed. There is also the issue that some places, such is Tibet, used to be independent countries but are not currently, but in some cases the categories related to that place include people both from its era of independence and its current era. Do these subcats go in the overall structure of Category:People by former country or not? Some of this may be a place where we need to avoid one hard and fast rule.John Pack Lambert (talk) 04:01, 9 March 2023 (UTC)
- You have raised some good points here. Thank you for adding an explanatory note on that category. I moved two non-compliant subcats (Scholars of X history) from there to Category:Historians by country. I've also opened a discussion at Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2023_March_30#Historians_by_country. – Fayenatic London 11:48, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
- When I say we will not get a hard and fast rule I think I can explain why. 1. We have Category:Olympic competitors for the Russian Empire because this category is matching people to the country they represented. 2-Ambassadors are of a country, and even if say the Russian Empire sends a German guy who has never set foot in Russia as their ambassador ro Portugal, the fact he is representing the Russian Empire in Portugal is defining. 3-with some writers, we are going to have to accept that they are dual and more categorized. A writer who is seen as part of the body of Croatian writers goes in Category:Croatian writers. Even if he lived 1818-1866 and clearly aldo brlongs in Category:Writers from the Austrian Empire. We do have some x-language writers, but I think if a writer is defined as part of a national awakening that is not going to cut it for categorization. On the other hand we need to avoid anachronistic categorization that imposes modern frameworks on oeople who were not part of modern countries. No one who died in 1912 was a Soviet writer, a Czechoslovak writer or a Yugoslav writer.John Pack Lambert (talk) 04:11, 9 March 2023 (UTC)
- There is a balance between avoiding anachronism and making sure that articles are written to be understood btmy modern readers. Thus I at times replace a mention to a place or thing by its modern name or geography by adding in "which is now in" or "which is now known as." We will not come to any quick solutions on these issues soon, but I fear some issues we may not have ever even co sidereal the issues involved.John Pack Lambert (talk) 07:12, 9 March 2023 (UTC)
- On a related note, why does Category:Historians by nationality have both a sub-cat Category:Historians by nationality and century and another Category:Historians by century and nationality? Why have both?John Pack Lambert (talk) 21:11, 9 March 2023 (UTC)
Category:Expatriates of the Netherlands has been nominated for merging
Category:Expatriates of the Netherlands has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Skovl (talk) 08:38, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
Speedy deletion nomination of Category:People of the Portuguese Empire
A tag has been placed on Category:People of the Portuguese Empire indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.
If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself. Liz Read! Talk! 01:55, 31 March 2023 (UTC)