Talk:Ilan Pappé

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Changing a published work reference[edit]

I write here to note that I replaced The Bureaucracy of Evil in Published work because I can't find reference to it as a standalone book, but I did find that there's a chapter with the same name in The Biggest Prison on Earth, also published by Oneworld. Please let me know if I'm remiss!

– spida-tarbell ❀ (talk) (contribs) 23:33, 14 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

RAM[edit]

Professor Ram is a sociologist, so there is no ability to analyze the truth of a historical article, only to analyze a sociological signal. That's why I deleted it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by שמי (2023) (talk • contribs) 23:20, 19 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It's a book review, not a response to the claims of the book. It was published in a peer-reviewed journal, so they clearly think that Professor Ram's opinion of the book is notable. ... discospinster _talk 23:25, 19 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I believe that the content from EI can stay, regardless of the reliability or depreciation of the source, does someone disagree?[edit]

While EI is obviously controversial and currently depreciated per RFC: Electronic Intifada? I believe that all content sourced here is acceptable due to ABOUTSELF, unless a better source is found. Does someone disagree? FortunateSons (talk) 11:14, 28 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Controversial?[edit]

This was recently added

His views have been described as controversial.^{[by whom?]}^[1]^[2]^[3]^{[failed verification]}^[4]^{[failed verification]}^[5]

Two of the sources fail verification because WP:HEADLINES only, leaves the Jerusalem Post which starts of "Controverisal Israeli historian...", YNET, which starts off "Controversial historian..." and JewishNews "controversial anti-Zionist authors Ilan Pappe and Noam Chomsky..". None of them say His views are controversial, they just assert that he is controversial without explanation, and these sources are not great and as well biased. Seems undue POV pushing, are there no decent sources that say his views are controversial? Selfstudier (talk) 15:10, 17 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It's also, IMO, just kind of a dumb thing for a Wikipedia article to say about anybody. What does "controversial" mean? Who isn't "controversial"? Levivich (talk) 17:03, 17 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed, not an encyclopedic thing to say and it is more the subject matter he deals with that is controversial. IOHANNVSVERVS (talk) 02:09, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ "Far Left historian Ilan Pappe says he is good friends with Haniyeh". The Jerusalem Post | JPost.com. 2007-02-13. Retrieved 2024-05-16.
^ Negev, Ayelet (2008-03-15). "Ilan Pappe: I'm not a traitor". Ynetnews. Retrieved 2024-05-16.
^ "Controversial historian to quit Israel for UK". The Jerusalem Post | JPost.com. 2007-04-01. Retrieved 2024-05-16.
^ "Controversial historian up for Wingate prize". www.thejc.com. Retrieved 2024-05-16.
^ Harpin, Lee. "Waterstones denies claims of anti-Israel bias in book display at flagship store". www.jewishnews.co.uk. Retrieved 2024-05-16.

Selfstudier (talk) 15:10, 17 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Extraordinary claim[edit]

I have removed the sentence "In 2007, Pappe publicly announced his close friendship with Hamas leader and then-Palestinian Authority Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh." Only one source exists for this claim - a piece by David Keyes in the Jerusalem Post. Although the piece does not appear to be labelled as opinion, Keyes was not a journalist, but a PR adviser working at various times for the Strategic Division of the IDF, Israel's ambassador to the UN, and (from 2016-8) Binyamin Netanyahu - a post from which he resigned following multiple accusations of sexual harassment. The claim is both extraordinary and unlikely, and does not appear to have been picked up or confirmed by any other news source. Given this, and Keyes' background as a paid propagandist rather than as a journalist, I do not consider this to be a reliable source. Stronger evidence is needed if someone wishes to re-add this claim. RolandR (talk) 16:41, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed, good removal. Levivich (talk) 18:20, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Recent change[edit]

I removed the following from the lede: "He has blamed Israel's existence for the lack of peace in the Middle East, arguing that Zionism is more dangerous than Islamic militancy, and has called for an international boycott of Israeli academics.^[1]^[2]"

I don't believe this is either accurate or due for the lede. IOHANNVSVERVS (talk) 02:18, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I replaced the text with "A strong critic of Zionism and the State of Israel, Pappé has called for an international boycott of Israeli academics." IOHANNVSVERVS (talk) 02:23, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

^ Wilson, Scott (11 March 2007). "A Shared History, a Different Conclusion". The Washington Post. Archived from the original on 15 June 2019. Retrieved 17 May 2012.
^ Lynfield, Ben (12 May 2005). "British Boycott Riles Israeli Academics". The Christian Science Monitor. Archived from the original on 24 July 2019. Retrieved 17 May 2012.

[:02-1] "Far Left historian Ilan Pappe says he is good friends with Haniyeh". The Jerusalem Post | JPost.com. 2007-02-13. Retrieved 2024-05-16.

[2] Negev, Ayelet (2008-03-15). "Ilan Pappe: I'm not a traitor". Ynetnews. Retrieved 2024-05-16.

[3] "Controversial historian to quit Israel for UK". The Jerusalem Post | JPost.com. 2007-04-01. Retrieved 2024-05-16.

[4] "Controversial historian up for Wingate prize". www.thejc.com. Retrieved 2024-05-16.

[5] Harpin, Lee. "Waterstones denies claims of anti-Israel bias in book display at flagship store". www.jewishnews.co.uk. Retrieved 2024-05-16.

[Wilson-6] Wilson, Scott (11 March 2007). "A Shared History, a Different Conclusion". The Washington Post. Archived from the original on 15 June 2019. Retrieved 17 May 2012.

[CSM2005-7] Lynfield, Ben (12 May 2005). "British Boycott Riles Israeli Academics". The Christian Science Monitor. Archived from the original on 24 July 2019. Retrieved 17 May 2012.

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