Talk:Guandimiao

Guandimiao is currently a World history good article nominee. Nominated by Generalissima (talk) (it/she) at 03:08, 4 May 2024 (UTC)

An editor has indicated a willingness to review the article in accordance with the good article criteria. Further reviews are welcome from any editor who has not contributed significantly to this article (or nominated it), and can be added to the review page, but the decision whether or not to list the article as a good article should be left to the first reviewer.

Short description: Archaeological site in Henan

China Low‑importance

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Archaeology Low‑importance

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Did you know nomination[edit]

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Launchballer talk 23:04, 16 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment or view
Article history

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... that an ancient Chinese village likely had its own local pyromancer?

Source: Li, Suting; Campbell, Roderick; Hou, Yanfeng (2018). "Guandimiao: A Shang Village Site and Its Significance". Antiquity. 92 (366). doi:10.15184/aqy.2018.176. (p. 1522)

Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Ground Round

Moved to mainspace by Generalissima (talk).

Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 45 past nominations.

Post-promotion hook changes will be logged on the talk page; consider watching the nomination until the hook appears on the Main Page.

Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 02:53, 4 May 2024 (UTC).[reply]

New and long enough, no problems, good to go. Cambalachero (talk) 02:32, 5 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review[edit]

This review is transcluded from Talk:Guandimiao/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Nominator: Generalissima (talk · contribs) 03:08, 4 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Reviewer: Remsense (talk · contribs) 03:19, 4 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You're so fast. Remsense诉 03:19, 4 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Summary table[edit]

Well-written:

Criteria	Notes	Result
(a) (prose)	The reviewer has left no comments here	Pass
(b) (MoS)	The reviewer has left no comments here	Pass

Verifiable with no original research, as shown by a source spot-check:

Criteria	Notes	Result
(a) (references)	The reviewer has left no comments here	Pass
(b) (citations to reliable sources)	The reviewer has left no comments here	Pass
(c) (original research)	The reviewer has left no comments here	Undetermined
(d) (copyvio and plagiarism)	The reviewer has left no comments here	Pass

Broad in its coverage:

Criteria	Notes	Result
(a) (major aspects)	The reviewer has left no comments here	Undetermined
(b) (focused)	The reviewer has left no comments here	Pass

Neutral: it represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each.

Notes	Result
The reviewer has left no comments here	Pass

Stable: it does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute.

Comment	Result
Relatively new and no sign of edit warring or ongoing	Pass

Illustrated, if possible, by media such as images, video, or audio:

Criteria	Notes	Result
(a) (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales)	The reviewer has left no comments here	Pass
(b) (appropriate use with suitable captions)	The reviewer has left no comments here	Pass

Result[edit]

Result	Notes
Undetermined	The reviewer has left no comments here

Discussion[edit]

TLP swinging by[edit]

This comment is in no place to replace Remsense's review above. My eyes are shaking when I see Generalissima crafted a very good article on a Chinese historic site that is *not* covered even on zh-wiki. Laura, if you keep doing things like this, you might deprive me of my only source of joy in life. /s

I did a close reading and to be fair, there's nothing much to add or fix. The prose style is in particular fantastic. Ping me in mid June and I will see if I can access the Chinese sources in "Further Reading" and add to the article, though these two sources look more like archaelogical summaries and I doubt whether they can contribute much. Perhaps they can add to the discovery of the site in detail. Cheers, --The Lonely Pather (talk) 09:35, 4 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It goes without saying that I welcome your comments! Remsense诉 09:38, 4 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Archaeology and history[edit]

It seems churlish when this is such a useful article, but I have some minor quibbles about the background bit, specifically "Founded c. 1600 BCE, the Shang dynasty transitioned into the Late Shang c. 1250 BCE" and "Zhengzhou and Yanshi were the core administrative centers of the Shang state". While it is common in China to identify Erligang as the early part of the Shang dynasty of the traditional histories, other archaeologists point out that the evidence for this is lacking, and criticize subordinating archaeology to the received texts. (Of course this doesn't apply to the Anyang folk, who left us inscriptions in which they call themselves "Shang".) A solution would be to mention the relationship to the traditional histories once, and write everything else in archaeological terms. Thus Erligang begins c. 1600 BCE, and Zhengzhou and Yanshi were major urban centres of that period.

Also, "achieved a material cultural influence over much of present-day China" is both vague and surely wrong, as present-day China is very big. One could certainly say that Late Shang material culture is found across most of the North China Plain. Kanguole 18:29, 4 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Very good points on both counts, and not churlish at all! I fixed this up. Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 19:10, 4 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Belated continuance[edit]

Sorry about that—I also realize that I tend to critique by doing, I imaging this could drive some submitters crazy. Having gone over it a few times, I've largely just had minor prose copyedits, each of the sources are exactly what one would expect and coverage is largely in order. Should be passing this imminently. Remsense诉 05:33, 17 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Coordinates[edit]

Coordinates are tricky in China thanks to the obfuscated GCJ-02 system required by the state. The current coordinates (34.788611, 113.481111) appear to be the GCJ-02 coordinates of the modern village. From the satellite images in Google Maps and Bing, it appears that the WGS 84 coordinates of the modern village are 34.78964, 113.4749. The archaeological site was southwest of the village,[1] presumably where the aquaduct is now, so about 34.78558, 113.47005. Kanguole 14:01, 4 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oh awesome, thank you very much! Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 14:25, 4 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]