Talk:Biology and sexual orientation

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This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 24 January 2022 and 13 May 2022. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): C.ler2022 (article contribs). Peer reviewers: Bcruz-cisneros.

Homosexuality and sex[edit]

Articles on sexual orientation are filled with claims that male homosexuality is linked to "feminization" or "demasculinization"; Why so much insistence on these assumptions? It's almost like they're "proven facts". For example, maternal immunization theoretically affects all fetuses, including those who will be heterosexual in the future, so it is just as possible that antibodies against male antigens are responsible for heterosexuality as it is for homosexuality. Nobody knows how such antibodies interact with such antigens, how cells and molecules react, if the fetus itself does not operate some kind of defense against maternal immunization, but they already assume that male homosexuality is derived from a congenital sexual deficiency. I appeal to you all to treat the hypotheses raised by these studies with the greatest care and neutrality as possible, without inferring (or categorically stating) that homosexuality is originated from sexual defects. It is all very speculative, therefore homosexuals do not deserve to be seen in the academic environment nor for Wikipedia readers as intersex or as people who were not very well sexually differentiated. Grateful — Preceding unsigned comment added by 177.95.47.193 (talk) 17:16, 17 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Undated Citation Needed tags[edit]

There are 3 undated Citation needed tags. One of them is from March 2007, so if someone more familiar can take a look and see whether they are still needed. Thanks Slywriter (talk) 05:08, 26 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Sexual Orientation in Twins: Evidence That Human Sexual Identity May Be Determined Five Days Following Fertilization[edit]

PMCID: PMC10757681 DOI: 10.7759/cureus.51346 The disparity in sexual identity in monozygous twins may relate to the time of splitting of the zygote– twins resulting from splitting on or before day 5 after fertilisation are free to develop their own sexual identity; twins splitting after day five have the same identity.

See: Sexual Orientation in Twins: Evidence That Human Sexual Identity May Be Determined Five Days Following Fertilization Narraburra (talk) 03:12, 31 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Bad paper, incorrect twin concordance, for example. Zenomonoz (talk) 02:58, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment[edit]

Hi CommonKnowledgeCreator, thanks for your contribution to the evolution section. However, Wikipedia generally relies on secondary sources. I think you've included excessive focus on the kin selection and antagonistic pleiotropy hypotheses, mostly using primary source studies. It's great there is an overview of the history, but we only need to cite secondary sources on the general consensus on these models. Zenomonoz (talk) Zenomonoz (talk) 02:58, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I am more than aware that Wikipedia generally relies on secondary sources. However, per WP:BMI, this is not a medical topic and one that appears (after a search of Google Scholar) to have few secondary sources that systematically review the subject (as most of the content does not appear to systematic reviews or meta-analyses), and WP:RS does not preclude primary sources and only states that secondary sources are preferred. As far as evolution and homosexuality are concerned, kin selection and antagonistic pleiotropy are the two main evolutionary hypotheses for homosexuality, and there does not appear to be a consensus about whether either is true. The only review using Google Scholar that I found that discusses kin selection or antagonistic pleiotropy does still suggest that the latter is a plausible hypothesis. -- CommonKnowledgeCreator (talk) 03:28, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not convinced of this argument for including so much focus on primary source studies? Many studies have questionable effect sizes, which is why it's best to avoid them, especially on a topic as controversial as this. As for not being able to find reviews, they are better reviewed and criticized in text books.
"Kin selection and antagonistic pleiotropy are the two main evolutionary hypotheses for homosexuality.. there does not appear to be a consensus about whether either is true" – they're both largely ruled out by GWAS, especially exclusive male homosexuality. There's still plausibility for antagonistic maintenance of the trait through other mechanisms such as this however.
I'm not saying they should not be covered, the Bailey review does indeed refer to both of them. I just think the coverage should be trimmed down, similar to the extent it is covered in that review.
Zenomonoz (talk) 04:50, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]